Building Modulating Arrangements

Best Online Fiddle Lessons Forums General Help Forum Building Modulating Arrangements

This topic contains 12 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Avatar John (BGD) 4 months ago.

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
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  • #70681
    fiddlewood
    fiddlewood
    Participant

    Hey all,

    I’m working on a little “learning project”: The Old Rugged Cross in 4 different keys as a sort of an exercise.
    G, Bb, C and D

    Any ideas, suggestions or comments on the order to run these keys in to play all of them as a single piece?

    Normally when I do htis type thing I jsut start at the lowest key and work my way up in order, but I’m wondering if there might be a better way to go about it.

    Notes:

    The G and D are essentially the same version.
    Bb and C are quite unique unto themselves.

    I can move from any one to any of the others about as easily, so the question is more about “pleasing sound”, and maybe accepted traditions in theory, etc.

    I look forward to seeing any suggestions anyone may have, and the reasoning behind them…Thanks!

    #70684
    Frederick
    Frederick
    Participant

    Hi Dave:

    Here’s my take:

    From the key of Bb, modulate to an F chord, Dm, G7 to C chord (new key)

    From key of C, modulate to G by this progression:

    climb up chromatically from C to C# to D7 to G new key

    from key of G modulate to key of D by climbing up from G to G# to A7 to new key of D.

    These are the simple ways of modulating. There are also very involved, stretched-out modulations used in orchestral composition that are strikingly beautiful when using double stops and with perhaps more than 2 or three stringed instruments in gorgeous harmonies.

    #70685
    fiddlewood
    fiddlewood
    Participant

    Thanks Fred!

    I’ll give that order a try.

    I’ll probably figure out my own “chords” to modulate with as I’m never sure what  fingering someone else’s description of a chord is.

    Also, there are specific DS I am entering and exiting the modulation with, so that may help determine the “chords” or fingerings I use.

    Cool, I wouldn’t have thought of using a IV before the II, V on that Bb to C change…

     

     

     

    #70686
    cricket
    cricket
    Participant

    I don’t know, but I think it’s a fascinating project and I hope we get to hear what you come up with.  You were saying normally it seems the most popular idea to move from the lowest on up when you modulate…that’s true.  But seems to me I’ve heard it done the opposite…well, not from the highest down, but at one point or other somebody modulating down when the ear didn’t expect it, but in such a way that the ear easily catches it, and it was especially moving.  I can’t remember when or where or what…just thinking I’d heard this done somewhere, unless I’m imagining it all…lol.  It would be interesting to fiddle around with where you go as you proceed.  Anyway…I’d love to hear what you end up with…could be very interesting!

    #70689
    fiddlewood
    fiddlewood
    Participant

    Peggy, this project will take a while for me…but I think it will be fun and I will learn a lot doing it.

    I’ve got my version of Luke Price’s version in Bb about figured out so far.

    Next is a Ben Clark mandolin version (on fiddle) in C…might have to change up some things in it but I like the ideas & difference in style of the break.

    Then I still have to get down The G and D versions of John’s that are here.

    I figure it’ll take a good few months to get it all organized and be able to get through it…if I don’t get distracted too much…haha, but at least I won’t run out of something to work on for a good while…

     

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by fiddlewood fiddlewood.
    #70694
    cricket
    cricket
    Participant

    I love having some kinda big project going like that…fun!  Enjoy it and please share when you’re ready!

    #70695
    Steve Srader
    Steve Srader
    Participant

    What Cricket said when your ready !

    #70701
    Frederick
    Frederick
    Participant

    Yes Dave, I totally agree. There are specific double stops you’ll find within the register you’ve voiced your arrangement in that will appeal to your style. That’s the way I fiddle, too.

    In the Bb to C modulation, for example, the F chord has two notes that are common with D minor i.e., the F and A notes; and the D minor chord has two notes that are common with G7, namely the D and F natural notes. This commonality causes consonant sounds throughout the modulation. The F natural note in the G7 chord strongly wants to resolve to the color tone (e note) of the new key of C chord, C E G.

    I was just thinking here at the computer as I write this post that the Bb chord has a D and an F in its’ triad. These two notes are common with the D minor. It may be a short cut to use this progression: Bb / Dm / G7/ C / (since the D minor and G7 chords share the two common notes of D and F) instead of the longer modulation employing the F chord.

    #70704
    fiddlewood
    fiddlewood
    Participant

    Thanks so much for the your perspective on this Fred.

    I’ve read similar posts from you, but this string has clicked with me and inspired a whole direction for some practice sessions.

    I’m afraid it has also severely lengthened this project….haha

     

     

     

    #70904
    fiddlewood
    fiddlewood
    Participant

    .

    After messing around with the transitions a bit I’ve decided I really like the order Ben Clark suggested ( G, C, D, Bb ) because:
    Every modulation will be different than the others
    it splits up the two versions that will be the most similar sounding.
    each break gets progressively more intricate,and the Bb has a great ending.

    I’m currently thinking that each modulation will entail 3 (possibly 4) double-stops between roots….basically a measure of quarter notes added between each key…

     

    #70906
    Steve Srader
    Steve Srader
    Participant

    Dave , I am looking forward to hearing your arrangement in the Lions Den !

    #70908
    fiddlewood
    fiddlewood
    Participant

    It’s a long road to that Steve…we’ll see…

    #72110
    Avatar
    John (BGD)
    Keymaster

    Great progressions, Fred! To Fred’s mod progression you could add a major before the seven just to make sure you get the timing right. Each chord holds for one bar:

    From the key of Bb, modulate to an F chord, Dm, G, G7 to C chord (new key)

    From key of C, modulate to G by this progression:

    climb up chromatically from C to C# to D, D7 to G new key

    Or, remember to hold the seven chord for two bars.

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