March 30, 2019 at 12:22 PM #70681
I’m working on a little “learning project”: The Old Rugged Cross in 4 different keys as a sort of an exercise.
G, Bb, C and D
Any ideas, suggestions or comments on the order to run these keys in to play all of them as a single piece?
Normally when I do htis type thing I jsut start at the lowest key and work my way up in order, but I’m wondering if there might be a better way to go about it.
The G and D are essentially the same version.
Bb and C are quite unique unto themselves.
I can move from any one to any of the others about as easily, so the question is more about “pleasing sound”, and maybe accepted traditions in theory, etc.
I look forward to seeing any suggestions anyone may have, and the reasoning behind them…Thanks!March 30, 2019 at 5:01 PM #70684
Here’s my take:
From the key of Bb, modulate to an F chord, Dm, G7 to C chord (new key)
From key of C, modulate to G by this progression:
climb up chromatically from C to C# to D7 to G new key
from key of G modulate to key of D by climbing up from G to G# to A7 to new key of D.
These are the simple ways of modulating. There are also very involved, stretched-out modulations used in orchestral composition that are strikingly beautiful when using double stops and with perhaps more than 2 or three stringed instruments in gorgeous harmonies.March 30, 2019 at 6:33 PM #70685
I’ll give that order a try.
I’ll probably figure out my own “chords” to modulate with as I’m never sure what fingering someone else’s description of a chord is.
Also, there are specific DS I am entering and exiting the modulation with, so that may help determine the “chords” or fingerings I use.
Cool, I wouldn’t have thought of using a IV before the II, V on that Bb to C change…March 30, 2019 at 6:52 PM #70686
I don’t know, but I think it’s a fascinating project and I hope we get to hear what you come up with. You were saying normally it seems the most popular idea to move from the lowest on up when you modulate…that’s true. But seems to me I’ve heard it done the opposite…well, not from the highest down, but at one point or other somebody modulating down when the ear didn’t expect it, but in such a way that the ear easily catches it, and it was especially moving. I can’t remember when or where or what…just thinking I’d heard this done somewhere, unless I’m imagining it all…lol. It would be interesting to fiddle around with where you go as you proceed. Anyway…I’d love to hear what you end up with…could be very interesting!March 30, 2019 at 8:29 PM #70689
Peggy, this project will take a while for me…but I think it will be fun and I will learn a lot doing it.
I’ve got my version of Luke Price’s version in Bb about figured out so far.
Next is a Ben Clark mandolin version (on fiddle) in C…might have to change up some things in it but I like the ideas & difference in style of the break.
Then I still have to get down The G and D versions of John’s that are here.
I figure it’ll take a good few months to get it all organized and be able to get through it…if I don’t get distracted too much…haha, but at least I won’t run out of something to work on for a good while…
March 30, 2019 at 9:10 PM #70694
- This reply was modified 2 months ago by fiddlewood.
I love having some kinda big project going like that…fun! Enjoy it and please share when you’re ready!March 30, 2019 at 9:56 PM #70695
What Cricket said when your ready !March 31, 2019 at 7:47 AM #70701
Yes Dave, I totally agree. There are specific double stops you’ll find within the register you’ve voiced your arrangement in that will appeal to your style. That’s the way I fiddle, too.
In the Bb to C modulation, for example, the F chord has two notes that are common with D minor i.e., the F and A notes; and the D minor chord has two notes that are common with G7, namely the D and F natural notes. This commonality causes consonant sounds throughout the modulation. The F natural note in the G7 chord strongly wants to resolve to the color tone (e note) of the new key of C chord, C E G.
I was just thinking here at the computer as I write this post that the Bb chord has a D and an F in its’ triad. These two notes are common with the D minor. It may be a short cut to use this progression: Bb / Dm / G7/ C / (since the D minor and G7 chords share the two common notes of D and F) instead of the longer modulation employing the F chord.March 31, 2019 at 1:22 PM #70704
Thanks so much for the your perspective on this Fred.
I’ve read similar posts from you, but this string has clicked with me and inspired a whole direction for some practice sessions.
I’m afraid it has also severely lengthened this project….hahaApril 12, 2019 at 11:14 AM #70904
After messing around with the transitions a bit I’ve decided I really like the order Ben Clark suggested ( G, C, D, Bb ) because:
Every modulation will be different than the others
it splits up the two versions that will be the most similar sounding.
each break gets progressively more intricate,and the Bb has a great ending.
I’m currently thinking that each modulation will entail 3 (possibly 4) double-stops between roots….basically a measure of quarter notes added between each key…April 12, 2019 at 11:36 AM #70906
Dave , I am looking forward to hearing your arrangement in the Lions Den !April 12, 2019 at 12:14 PM #70908
It’s a long road to that Steve…we’ll see…May 18, 2019 at 3:19 PM #72110
Great progressions, Fred! To Fred’s mod progression you could add a major before the seven just to make sure you get the timing right. Each chord holds for one bar:
From the key of Bb, modulate to an F chord, Dm, G, G7 to C chord (new key)
From key of C, modulate to G by this progression:
climb up chromatically from C to C# to D, D7 to G new key
Or, remember to hold the seven chord for two bars.
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