Imitate-Integrate-Initiate

Best Online Fiddle Lessons Forums What else is on your mind? Imitate-Integrate-Initiate

This topic contains 8 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  John Cockman 2 months ago.

Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #54196

    Angela
    Participant

    I’ve always heard this little phrase talking about improvisation, usually associated with jazz.  But, I’ve found it to be true for BG, too.  I’m very much still in the imitate stage.  I’m working on trying to move toward the integrate and initiate stage.  But, I hear breaks and licks that are so cool, and there’s no way I can come up with those on my own yet.

    #54201
    Steve Srader
    Steve Srader
    Participant

    Not there either .

    #54211
    fiddlewood
    fiddlewood
    Participant

    When we start integrating imitation we are initiating…

    …use of any riff learned in a place it wasn’t in originally is initiation…if done without prior planning it is improvisation

    …it happens naturally when you learn more than one way to play any part of a song and then play without reading…odds are you will go to the part you weren’t planning on at some time or another, but will make it through the passage.

    …playing without depending on the written sheet, and willingness to spend time on experimentation with options on how to play things differently, is imperative to learning how to replace written licks with others that fit. This is one reason many instructors teach “hot licks”, “licks in ? chord”, etc…it pushes students toward simple “replacement improvisation” (my term).

    The more we do it the easier it gets…but it never happens if we are reading what the next note should be. I’ve gotten to the point where tab or music slows down my learning…I don’t always get a perfect imitation, but through experimentation I usually learn at least a couple ways to get through each passage that are either on or close…if I had a better memory I could probably always put each “way” into the same place in a tune, but I mostly decide what I’ll play next just before I get to it,  or at the beginning of that section.

    Eventually, I expect that I’ll find which licks follow each other in either an easier pattern for my hands, or a more pleasing combination with the preceding licks and an arrangement that is mine will sort of form itself. (ha, then if I can remember that I’ll be in high cotton)…

    #54220
    cricket
    cricket
    Participant

    I guess all folk style musicians copy something and then put their own spin on it with time.  I’m not too good at reading tab or music…I mean, I can, but I’d rather just learn more by watching and listening.  Of course, then I misremember what it was exactly that I saw or heard, and it’s probably gonna start morphing into its own direction that way…or possibly just get corrupted beyond recognition.  Anyway, yes, it is lots of interesting stuff to think about…how we get from X to Y.  Imitation to individualism.  At first I started to write, how we get from A to B…but, considering we are talking fiddle tunes, figured that’d be too confusing.

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by cricket cricket.
    #54223

    Angela
    Participant

    Great thoughts. Yea I can read music but it slows me down too. Now it’s getting easier for me to figure out how to play something I hear. But it took a long time to be able to do that.

    My imitation starts morphing for the same reasons you all mention. But thing is, I’m not sure mine is an improvement! Ha

     

    #54240
    cricket
    cricket
    Participant

    I have to play something a long time before I know if I like the way I play it.  It’s usually not a case of improvement, though…lol.  But just, is it me?  Is it a comfortable place to put that tune?  Sometimes it’s not, sometimes it’s close, and on the really great times, it’s right in the pocket.  I’m talking multiple track recording…I don’t know how you get it right in the pocket with a band…when I played in a band I felt like our playing was always just a matter of not stepping on each other’s tippy toes ( figuratively and literally lots of times), and staying out of each other’s way…lol.  I personally never felt like our group got it together like we should have. It’s easy on the Presonus, because the clones on the other tracks at least have the same idea going on in their mind(s).

    #54271

    John Cockman
    Keymaster

    This reminds me of the classical Trivium in education:

    Grammar – Logic – Rhetoric

    During the grammar stage, the student is mostly imitating; learning words, multiplication tables, etc. The Logic stage is where the student begins to process and analyze what was learned in the Grammar stage. Finally, during the Rhetoric stage, the student begins to apply that knowledge to new situations and make it their own.

    #54277
    fiddlewood
    fiddlewood
    Participant

    cool…that fits really well John, and makes total sense.

    Obviously from my post you can tell I get free ink for typing..only used 5 times the words to say nearly the same thing…haha…never been known for my efficiency in the art of communication.

    #54323

    John Cockman
    Keymaster

    Hey, you had a lot of good stuff to say in there!

Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Posted in