The Corona thread

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  • #87454
    Great ScottGreat Scott
    Moderator

    A very brave nurse exposes the skewing of casualty numbers and speaks out with video evidence.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VFngRmp1HE

    #87463
    Avatarkakadukate
    Participant

    I did write in “pray for our country’ thinking it was because you were suffering from the Carona virus. My mistake, I have since realised it was from the government!

    Anyway, back to Carona, I believe this is a world health crisis, and not a conspiracy to control people. It did create a lot of panic at the start, especially when early modelling showed such catastrophic outcomes. Governments and scientists had to very quickly respond to something that they knew very little about. In Australia we weren’t too worried, until it started spreading through the community and people started to die. We had concerns that our health system would not cope if we didn’t do something. It was a scramble and a lot of knee jerk reaction, but ultimately our government (state and federal) took it seriously and the public did too. Though we were little slow off the mark, we actually could see what was happening in other parts of the world, particularly Italy and Spain, and thought it would be best to be safer rather than sorry.

    While there is some scepticism from some of you that Covid is not as serious as reported. I feel truly sorry for those who have experienced loss of loved ones or who have suffered emotionally and financially from the lockdowns. It was, and continues to be, a dreadful pandemic. But, as an Australian, I couldn’t understand why it has become such a divisive issue, polarising people into ideological camps about its source, severity and reality until I stepped back to look at the political machinations and bias that seems to dominate many things in the US. I hope that sanity prevails.

    At the start, I thought the Carona virus was going to be just like the flu, and actually hoped I’d get it and recover quick enough so I could go travelling in Europe (was to land in Italy in March). But luckily for me, I live in Australia, and our government stopped all travel and put our country into full lockdown for about month. The difference between Australia and the US is that we didn’t see lockdown as a government plot to take over our liberties, but as a sensible recommendation by our epidemiologists and health advisers to get a grip about what was going on and make a plan for the way forward, based on scientific evidence. Strict physical distancing rules were put in place and Covid Safe policies had to be adhered to before states began to open up. I’m pretty cynical about governments and their agendas, but there was bipartisan support for looking after people who had lost jobs and help businesses, that really made it easier to cope with the lockdowns, as well as a big push to support people’s mental health. We’re all very happy that we took those measures now, and that we are still following the health guidelines – it’s certainly worked for us! Life is back to normal, it’s just a different normal in that we are still taking the basic recommended precautions because Covid is still around, but states have developed very targeted responses, and most people don’t mind following the rules that get put in place to deal with it. There are some people in Australia who don’t wear masks, don’t follow rules, some share alternate facts and cures on social media, some spit in people’s faces when asked to wear masks in shops. Everyone has a right to an opinion, but luckily for us, most people choose to follow simple rules to get on with their lives. If you don’t believe me, Go do your own research on ‘Australia’s Covid response’.

    I think a difference is that in Australia we generally trust our Mainstream media for providing factual information, not just opinions. When we have Cyclones, bush fires etc, we rely on our national radio and television provider for essential sources of current alerts and information. I think, as a public, we see Covid as a natural disaster that needs to managed. We are fairly pragmatic and choose to follow the health advice given through the mainstream media because we can see the common sense in it. It seems, compared to the rest of the world, Australia is managing very well.

    There is obviously a lot distrust in the US with mainstream (lamestream/fake news) media. We should assume there is always going to be some political bias and commentary from any media source, but journalists are also held liable to a code of conduct and usually work to get to the facts. Scientists, doctors and politicians also often disagree about facts, so it is important that there is lively discourse, questions and debate in institutions and between experts. But it is equally important to look at the ongoing evidence and readjust thinking as the data and research changes. Scientists will trial many different options, some successfully and some not, but I believe that there is genuine intention is to adjust and improve treatments and help make things better. Scientists are just as capable as following a false lead, and holding a false hypothesis, as the normal layperson. In the end, through reading of scientific papers (different to the ones cited above) and listening to our public health experts, I agree with the science and health advice that we have pursued in Australia, which seems to be consistent with the majority of health experts and scientists in the world. I believe we’re not being conned, but that people are working hard to save lives. But when mainstream media is written off at fake news, does that make social media and unfiltered commentary somehow more factual and trustworthy?

    I’m a teacher. In our education system critical literacy is specifically taught, and basically it encourages us to always consider our own filter of world view when reading or accessing information as well as the agenda and intentions of that source. It shocks me the amount of untrue and downright misleading information is spread through social media. I have family members in the health professional who are responsible for the actual lives of people and I can’t believe people would deliberately ignore health recommendations that are about saving lives because of alternate facts gleaned from a facebook post. I wonder at the source of outrage and anger that simple recommendations about wearing masks and physical distancing have generated. But it starts to make sense when it’s all a HOAX, a panicdemic, a deliberate government to take away people’s rights, and big Pharma conspiracy. I’ve had friends share a video of the ‘Plandemic’, the dangers of wearing masks, that Bill Gates created the Carona Virus, who are convinced that Michelle Obama is actually transgender and some of the other FACTS that become more and more ludicrous if you follow the feeds and go down numerous rabbit holes. But if that’s what you believe and where you get your information, I certainly won’t be able to make you change your mind. Whatever our source of information, we naturally select that which conforms with our own personal beliefs and bias. I accept that some of you will not agree with me, as I don’t agree with you. It’s healthy to challenge, question and disagree, which is why forums like this are important ways to question and articulate our thinking. I’ve fact checked information that has been sent to be by some facebook friends, but it doesn’t really make a difference when we present alternate facts. Am I right, am I wrong? What information do I trust? Ultimately I will choose my own path from what I believe. Don’t we all? But I question any source that informs me: Who wrote this or posted this?  Why? Why is this post being sent? Who does it benefit? What is their agenda? Is it helpful? Do they have evidence to back that up?

    So, back in Australia, we watched in shock as Donald Trump spoke from his podium and said many things about the Carona virus, even though it was the opposite of what his health advisors were recommending. Some were bizarre ‘it is a Democrat’s hoax, not much different to the flu (I initially believed that one), it will magically go away, it will disappear, we’ve got it completely under control, the media will stop reporting about it after the election’, as well as a few downright dangerous treatments and cures – You’ll find the same things posted on social media as facts. It seems he is consistent and shameless liar. But obviously many people love him. But it also seems that if you love Trump, as you have to show your allegiance in denying reality. I actually worry for you all in the US because of what is happening politically is really affecting the ability to manage a major health crisis. You can love him, vote for him, but don’t believe a word he says. Listen to the health advisers who are trying to save lives, they don’t have any political agenda, except to save lives. I personally hate wearing a mask because I can smell my own breath and it STINKS, but I wear one when I’m on public transport or in shops in hot spots. I admit to having an ulterior motive in believing that this is a dangerous pandemic because I’ve HAD to spend more time at home gardening and practising my fiddle – I’ve actually improved!  so it’s a win for me!

    Best wishes!

    #87464
    cricketcricket
    Participant

    Very interesting post, KakaduKate.  I think you hit the nail on the head.  I think here in the US much of the country believes science is fake, university education is fake, media is fake, corona is fake…fake, fake fake…information is never really researched and compared with one’s native common sense, imho.  I know a friend in another part of KY who is going through cancer treatment and her doctor told her to take walks in the nearby park, get exercise, relaxation, etc.  She tried…she wears her masks, and has been so harassed by anti-maskers, who come up in her face and intimidate her and possibly even spread virus her way…she stopped.  She said she didn’t feel up to the daily fight for her right to protect herself from further physical and mental distress.

    I think it’s weird that people in the US are so skeptical and willing to believe insane things and ignore reality.  Here, we believe what we wish to be true, and that’s the end of it.  Seems to me we are on the verge of losing journalism and news media…people see them as a part of some big conspiracy, like scientists.  It’s amazing to me to watch.  It’s very sad.  News media have put their own lives on the line to report things that are helpful, life-saving, etc., but are harassed in favor of conspiracy advocates.  I’m amazed at what happens here all the time.  I don’t know what to make of it all.  It didn’t used to be this way in the US.  I know people personally who believe Hillary Clinton drinks other people’s blood.  It’s just too crazy here anymore.  I mean, you can disagree with her ideas, but then when you jump from reasonable disagreement to accusing someone of drinking blood in the basement of the pizza restuarant…you’ve gone wacko.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by cricketcricket.
    #87466
    goettjpgoettjp
    Participant

    I don’t know of anyone who said the ChinaVirus was fake.  Not even Trump said that.

    What was fake was the MSM-created mass hysteria. Yes, it was a novel virus and we didn’t know much in March.  But as the science played out  we realized that keeping liquor stores (and Walmarts) open was fine, but we needed to close churches and mom-n-pop stores…  that was fake.

    When we saw the governors of big lockdown states (MI, IL NJ) defying their own orders, it caused people to be skeptical.    When we see people, ALONE in their car, wearing a mask, it causes you to subconsciously think masks are a joke.  Even if they’re not.  I was in Colorado in July, riding my horse in the Rockies on the Continental Divide at 10,000 feet above sea level… and I met a solo hiker.  Wearing a mask.   Really?

    Life is all about risk mitigation.  We do it daily.  I feel I’m taking a far bigger risk riding my road bicycle on these East Tennessee curvy mountain roads than I am going mask-less to Walmart.  My in-laws are Covid-scared to death, but still drive to the drive-thru to eat unhealthy food every day…. without wearing their seatbelts.

    #87467
    cricketcricket
    Participant

    Going by the principles of public health, given what is understood at this time about the virus…one could reasonably say you are taking somewhat of a personal risk riding the hills on your bike, but you are putting others in the community at risk by not wearing a mask at Walmart.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by cricketcricket.
    #87469
    goettjpgoettjp
    Participant

    I guess I just follow the science….  New England Journal of Medicine, May 2020

    We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.”

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

    #87470
    cricketcricket
    Participant
    #87475
    goettjpgoettjp
    Participant

    I just follow the science….

    “The chance of catching COVID-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore “minimal.” ”

    “Wearing masks (other than N95) will not be effective at preventing SARS-CoV-2 transmission, whether worn as source control or as PPE ”

    https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/    Sept 26, 2020

    #87476
    cricketcricket
    Participant

    The AAPS also believes HIV doesn’t cause aids and that vaccines cause autism, etc.,etc.  They have a shady history of incorrect information and a political agenda to prove, not just science itself… my advice would be to not follow their medical advice, but seek elsewhere.

    Somehow I accidentally subscribed to this topic, which I never do anymore because my phone drives me crazy…I keep unsubscribing but still getting notices and still seem to be subscribed everytime I get on…my phone goes off all day and night for various things anymore…lol…gosh I remember so well the poverty times when I wished so bad for a phone…now they drive me insane.  Anyway, I don’t like being subscribed to a topic, so I’ll try once again to unsubscribe.

    But Goett, I’m no scientist, myself, which is why I look to the source of any info out there…some of it has agenda…which is anti-science.  This thing, this virus, ain’t gonna stop interfering with our lives until we take some kind of action against it.  Take care, my friend.  Thanks for the engaging conversation.  I’m gonna try once again to unsubscribe…lol…nice chattin’.

    #87477
    goettjpgoettjp
    Participant

    My wife worked in the medical field for 25+ years.  She never wears a mask.  Her best friend is an ER doctor in PA who spends her “off” weeks here in TN.  She wears the full-on N95 and appropriate gear for working in close quarters and extended times with many people.  But when she comes here, she’s maskless….

    #87482
    cricketcricket
    Participant

    Ok…people do what they wanna do, don’t they.  I know of people who work in various medical fields who won’t go anywhere without a mask and gloves…so, yeah…they do what they wanna do.  We have no mandates one way or another, just info and individual responsibility.

    Somehow I’m still subscribed…lotta frustrations going on in our place right now, so my phone is annoying me with alerts…lol.

    #87490
    Gunnar SalyerGunnar Salyer
    Participant

    Vaccines can cause autism, it’s not uncommon knowledge, and I have heard several firsthand accounts of it doing so. So chucking in a box with nonsense is slightly unreasonable.

    Back to your regularly scheduled broadcast

    #87492
    cricketcricket
    Participant

    The kinda scary thing is no vaccine is entirely safe.  No vaccine is entirely effective either.  But they have overall saved many lives, giving people immunity from deadly diseases but more importantly, wiping out a lot of disease by instigating herd immunity.  I wish I woulda been born later and got a measles shot…but instead, my eardrums are both badly damaged by measles when i was three…fortunately I have no hearing loss…but I’d like to have intact ear drums, ya know?  As I said up there somewhere before, my third cousin died of tetanus…it’s a terrible thing to happen…and my neighbor died of rabies…bitten by a rabid cow when it went through the herd…terrible way to die.  Nobody lives through these things.  There are many people my age who had polio as kids…that violinist…itzak Perlman (I’m sure I didn’t spell that right) for one…but I knew kids growing up who woul d never walk or never walk very well because of polio.  When the polio vaccine came out, you can bet all of our parents loaded us up and hurried off to get the vaccine.  I still remember how relieved they were…and we went three times to get a purple-looking sugar cube loaded with live, attenuated polio virus.  My daughter, as an infant, got a liquid dose of live, attenuated polio virus and boosters while growing up.  By some point we had wiped out community spread of polio so much with the live vaccines that the ONLY cases in the U S  were the rare ones from the vaccine itself.  Well scientists came up with a killed virus…and my grandson, by the time he came along, got the killed virus to prevent polio…so now there’s no cases either community or by live vaccine dose.  Of course it’s liable to re-surface with so many who refuse vaccines…and then we’ll have to go through all of that again.

    Then there was the “swine flu” epidemic that never happened, except for those of us who took the vaccine.  Back in 77 or maybe 76…I can’t remember…it was an election year, and epidemiologists, who watch for epidemics and pandemics all the time, saw two rare cases of swine flu at Fort Dix, NJ, in young soldiers…I can’t remember if they died or just got extremely ill…can’t remember now, but it was scary and this was the same flu that had made the rounds just at the end of WWI, so scientists worried only my granparents’ generation would have any sort of immunity…they gave out free shots of live attenuated swine flu vaccine…well, we were among the first to get access to the free vaccine, back in our little hole in the holler…we figured we should have one since it was a very cold winter that year…we heated with wood in a breezy house with a fireplace only, and cut the trees down with an ax only and cut our wood up with a two-man cross cut only…had to haul water on foot for a mile up through a steep gully, etc….basically we feared if we got that flu we would die from lack of being able to take care of ourselves throughout the winter.  We got shots…two weeks later we got the flu!  First time we ever had the flu.  A lot of people who got the shot got the flu…as I said, it was an election year and the incumbent rushed to get us a vaccine…a lot of people died from the vaccine…it was a flop though, the predicted swine flu…the only people that caught it were the ones who got the shot…now, that scared me for a long time and I still feel scared of and don’t get flu shots.

    Fast forward…here we go again…only this time a pandemic, not epidemic was predicted…this time right on…it’s happening everywhere.  Now here is a rushed vaccine…fortunately it has no live virus…I’m hoping that means it’s pretty safe.  Supposedly one or so out of a million can have a severe allergic reaction to it…well, tend to have pretty big allergic reactions to various medicines and foods and stuff…so…kinda scary.  Going through the recent broken arm surgery actually sort of helped me…I don’t know what-all they pumped into me doing that, but I had no reactions, so that gave me a little more confidence about my body dealing with meds and stuff.  Will I take this vaccine?  I’m leaning toward yes.  I want to contribute to herd immunity and help wipe out this disease…also, I’m tired of wearing masks, being careful for my own health, and being conscientious about whether I could be harming anyone else unknowingly…I don’t like wearing a mask…I do it all the time.  I don’t have any reason to believe a mask is harmful…but I just don’t like it…I do it to protect myself and anybody else I come into contact with.  If I get the vaccine, which as I said I’m leaning toward, but kinda scared…scared of allergic reaction…but if /when I get it, I will to protect both myself, others I come into contact with, and to hopefully help instigate enough herd immunity so that we can put this thing behind us.

    Just as I was saying somewhere up there…viruses do evolve quickly, relatively speaking…and at one time the common cold probably killed people, herpes simplex cold sore virus probably  killed people, but they and people changed over the eons enough so that the virus can spread itself around better by not killing everybody off…covid will one day do the same, most likely.  Some day it’ll be like having the flu or a bad cold…but now, it can kill, it can be unpredictable, or you can not know you even have it…it’s just weird.  But anyway…that’s my thoughts on the whole situation. Anybody wanna give me a penny for my thoughts????  LOL, you’d be ripped off…not worth it,I’m sure.

    #87509
    fiddlewoodfiddlewood
    Participant

    Well, I got tested this morning as part of prep for surgery. Both nostrils and mouth.

    #87523
    cricketcricket
    Participant

    I had to get tested before they did the surgery on my arm too…made me feel somewhat relieved to know all the other patients there were negative and they still made us all wear masks too…everyone was masked and very careful…I was happy about that…at least it seemed they were doing everything they could to not infect anyone who was there.  We couldn’t have visitors either…Mike had to wait in the car the whole time…so, well I would have liked for him to be in there with me, but since I would have been uncomfortable with other people having visitors…I certainly understood the necessity of that, given the situation.  Good luck with yours, Dave.

    #87524
    fiddlewoodfiddlewood
    Participant

    There was no one but a couple nurses and myself in the building for the test. They only let one in at time…

    Thanks. We;ll see how things go…

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