The end of free speech

Online Fiddle Lessons Forums What else is on your mind? The end of free speech

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  • #87427
    Great ScottGreat Scott
    Moderator

    I am a very outspoken critic of anyone, or any entity, in fact, who denies us our civil liberties and freedoms.  President Trump has now had his Twitter account closed and has been permanently banned from Twitter. It appears that 34,000 people — people who have different views on certain matters —  had their Youtube accounts permanently shutdown the same day that President Trump had his shut down.  And now Parler, the free-speech application and online platform has been deleted from the Amazon store and other big tech stores for the false allegation that Parler was used to incite the protest at the Capitol building . This is big tech ganging up to put an end to free speech platforms and silence those who speak their mind. See the video in the link below.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m20JngeQ9Kc

     

    #87428
    cricketcricket
    Participant

    But, seems to me since those are all private, not government corporations, they are, of course, going to cover their own behinds when it comes to possible inciting of violence through their platforms…as far as free speech…that’s anybody’s right, but private corporations will act to protect themselves from being in on something potentially violent.  Can’t blame them…it’s the same as gun rights…yeah, you can have a gun, but if you go into a store, they can kick anybody out for having a gun in their store, because they don’t want to be held responsible for your shooting of somebody in there, even though you have every right to carry around your gun…but not on their property or associated with their business and reputation among their customers.  If you come to visit at our house you won’t ever get alcohol…we know too well and better than we wanna know the horrible things that can happen and we don’t want to be an accomplice to whatever somebody does drunk…so…people who visit us leave us in a sober state, then if they wanna go do something harmful or stupid, they can leave us out of the picture.  I think it’s kinda like that, seems to me anyway…what do you think?  The president can say what he wants, but if those people who run social media platforms feel like they could inadvertently wind up being blamed for something that causes destruction of property or threats to others lives or disturbances in the functioning of our government or whatever, they are gonna say no to him or whoever else, out of fear they could get their behinds sued or tarnish their reputations among trusting customers.  Just my opinion, what do you think?  First amendment rights are for everyone to enjoy, but businesses can say not in my store, not on my property, not on my platform, etc.  Just my opinion.  I have no law degrees or any of that…just my opinion.  I got kicked off a message board one time…lol…so…hey that kinda thing happens when you offend or somehow make the owner of the thing uncomfortable (by the way, in case anybody wonders…I got kicked off a vegan message board after telling of my discovery that I had food allergies which were mainly caused by variously frequently eaten foods among that group and was gonna have to alter my diet and decided to eat meat for a while to get my health back.  I guess that wasn’t the right thing to say there.  I still do eat meat…I’m a vegan at heart, really, but a meat-eater at stomach…because my health is better when I eat meat…although I’m not thrilled about that.  still, they were in the right…I had no place discussing that on their platform and they told me to get lost. It’s ok to get banned…you live to tell it.)  But the vegan message board, as much as it hurt my feelings and left me feeling detached to many friends I’d made there, did not in any way preclude my first amendment rights…they didn’t want the ideas I was expressing to be on their message board that was for vegan support only.  I can’t blame them…although it’s never fun to be banned from anything…still, it is their right to run their business in the way they see fit.  They weren’t stopping me from speaking, just stopping me from saying it there.

    #87433
    Great ScottGreat Scott
    Moderator

    I like your vegan board experience, Cricket. Very amusing. 🙂

    While Parler was removed from the big techs app stores for the FALSE claim that its members had helped incite the incident at the Capitol building, the big tech companies did absolutely NOTHING to ban or even report to the FBI and other law officials the thousands of Twitter and Facebook and other leftist social media platforms the ANTIFA terrorists who use those big tech platforms to plan and co-ordinate their numerous terrorist attacks, and who, immediately after President Trump’s inauguration, stormed Berkley University and began destroying it. And they (big tech) have, since Berkley, STILL never suspended the account(s) of, or reported to the FBI or law officials, the thousands of ANTIFA terrorists who use those leftist social media platforms as a means of meeting and planning more of their attacks. If big tech wants to make an example of one, then they need to make an example of all.  But they don’t. The playing field is very uneven.

    Parler was the most popular app in the app stores of Apple, Google, Amazon. The whole deletion of Parler from those app stores and the deletion of them by their servers etc, and the vilification of Parler and big tech’s lame and very false claim, seems to me (and millions of others) to be nothing more than 1) A way of terminating a social media platform that actually allowed and welcomed free speech, and 2) Ganging up and getting rid of a social media platform that wasn’t one of their own Marxist warps. and 3) Irresponsibly turning a blind eye to their own terrorizing deviates.

    clouthub.com the non-big tech, free speech social media platform is now where Parler may be supporting its members. I may even join up to see what it’s all about. But I had better be quick before the big tech league shut it down.

    Because of what big tech has done to Parler(and Amazon is one of them), I will be deleting my Amazon account ASAP to show my support for Parler.

     

     

    #87434
    Gunnar SalyerGunnar Salyer
    Participant

    Well, Trump was supposedly banned for “inciting violence” on twitter, and yet the next day “hang Mike Pence” was trending, ON TWITTER. If that isn’t incitement of violence then I don’t know what is. It isn’t about, “oh this is my business and I don’t want guns in here”. It’s more a case of “oh this guy can have a gun because we’re both Dallas cowboys fans, you can’t have one because you’re a Texans fan” but they simultaneously claim to be a fair and equal platform. If they admitted to being a jaded platform that only allows certain ideas, it would be fine. But they claim to like diversity and be open to other points of view. That’s why there’s a problem. It’s because of the hypocrisy, not the action

    #87508
    fiddlewoodfiddlewood
    Participant

    “Free speech” = “Congress shall make no law…” It’s a Congressional/Constitutional question.

    Except under certain National security terms etc., a privately owned company still has the right to refuse service/not use assets that don’t conform to it’s policies. This is why these platforms are not flooded with XXX child pornography and the like.

    Would you prefer that John was denied the freedom to moderate this forum as he sees fit?

    Reporting of things that actually happened, such as incidents perpetrated by those who attacked the Capitol building, is not considered incitement by the platforms. There is also the matter of ‘truthfulness of statements posted” to be considered. Many spreaders of false claims and verbally violent posters have been silenced, but not all.

    Since the Reagan/Murdoch coalition wiped out the Fairness Doctrine, it opened the door to any media outlets becoming echo-chambers where opposing views are never heard/read. This has lead to a large proliferation of wild conspiracies, “alternative facts”, acceleration of extremist fringe philosophies, and a lack of credibility to the information available to us.

    There has been no hypocrisy or political favoritism I’ve seen in this so far, but rather an uptick in enforcement of policies, as a self-preserving reaction, that was forced on the companies through presidential/governmental threats of liability for what others post on their platforms. I’ve watched people from both political persuasions get suspended/booted in this new cleansing. Nearly in equal numbers…

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by fiddlewoodfiddlewood.
    #87533
    Gunnar SalyerGunnar Salyer
    Participant

    Interesting, I haven’t seen anyone of a left leaning persuasion get suspended at all, including various people who are trending hashtags like #hangmikepence or literally telling people to go burn stuff (Aoc).

    Do you have any examples of leftists who have been banned?

    #87534
    cricketcricket
    Participant

    It wasn’t the left wing folks, but, rather, the right wing folks who were talking about hanging Mike Pence…disappointed that he wouldn’t try to bend the rules in President Trump’s favor on reporting electoral vote tallies to the congress.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by cricketcricket.
    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by cricketcricket.
    #87538
    fiddlewoodfiddlewood
    Participant

    Gunnar, several of both “persuasions” are people I personally know and I don’t feel comfortable sharing their identities and posts here. I don’t feel this forum is the place for such things.

    Peggy is correct about the pound sign thing. It was a major theme of the attack on the Capitol Building…they even erected a makeshift gallows on Capitol grounds.

    Threats of violence aren’t being tolerated…seems a good thing to me, except it was easier to find & catch the bad folks when letting them post that stuff.

    There are still some pretty terrible posts that are allowed, so the moderation is still fairly loose as far as I can see…

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by fiddlewoodfiddlewood.
    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by fiddlewoodfiddlewood.
    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by fiddlewoodfiddlewood.
    #87542
    AvatarJoe
    Participant

    I wish everyone would go back to fiddling. Words matter.

     

    #87543
    fiddlewoodfiddlewood
    Participant

    Agreed Joe. There are plenty of places other than a music forum where children may be reading to vent political ideals.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by fiddlewoodfiddlewood.
    #87544
    FrederickFrederick
    Participant

    Thanks, Joe.

    #87548
    IcebikeIcebike
    Participant

    Well said, Joe.  Fiddling is good noise and drowns out confusion.

    #87549
    Gunnar SalyerGunnar Salyer
    Participant

    Yeah, fiddling is superior to political gab flapping in every way. Here’s to hoping for a less polarized idealogical future, where everyone fiddles rather than arguing

    #87556
    cricketcricket
    Participant

    For sure!  Let’s click our fiddles together in unison and play some tunes together!

    #87559
    FrederickFrederick
    Participant

    Yay! Let’s “click” !!! 😉

    #87561
    cricketcricket
    Participant

    CLICK!   oh…not too hard though…lol.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by cricketcricket.
    #87576
    rodgerrodger
    Participant

    Well, I just want to make sure I understand what is acceptable here.  I know this is a fiddle community, obviously, but in order to keep people coming when things are slow, and just to fellowship, most of the talk is folks interacting kind of like you do at a coffee shop type experience.  Each thread has a title that is supposed to reveal the particular content of that thread, so if someone writes, “How to fry snails for breakfast”, I probably won’t be interested in loading that one.

    So it seems if we’re all friendly and mature it would be kind of odd not to share our values about these extraordinary times on the political scene.  I was certainly not offended by Scott sharing his feelings, and I would hope everyone else would appreciate his input.  In fact, we are all under heavy pressure these days to just shut up and swallow what is being forced down our throats and surrender the freedom and values my parents sacrificed their lives for.  And not just my folks, but their sacrifice resulted in a lot of suffering in my own life growing up, and my siblings too.  And now we are told it was all for nothing?

    I didn’t mean to say anything, but just to ask what everyone wants as to thread topics.  But my Dad was in George Pattons 99th Checkerboard Division and saw it all over there, …suffered horribly, and Mom carried her share of the trauma at home, and my brothers also.  Now we are watching the same thing happen here.  Most folks may not have any idea what I’m feeling and talking about, and many may be happy with it all.  But the reality is that some of us know from experience some things that aren’t being taught in the schools, and it’s traumatic to watch what’s going on.  If others don’t want to hear, I’ll be quiet.  Thanks Scott, for sharing.

    #87577
    cricketcricket
    Participant

    I’m never offended by honest discussion.  My family was all in the wars, wwi, wwii, korea, viet nam, afghanistan and iraq.  Mike’s a veteran …his family all was too…even his mom, one of the first women, serving in wwii.  We all love and care about our country and our fellow countrymen/women.  I think it’s kind of a shame that in our age we cannot discuss anything “political,” and that, by definition, has spread to so many areas of life, even as far as to whether a person will wear a mask in a once-in-a-lifetime (we hope) global pandemic…yes, even that is political because science has been scathed by conspiracy theories, etc., to the point where people are fine using the results of physics to communicate with our amazing technologies today, yet reluctant to acknowledge the older discoveries of microbes, comparatively speaking, and how to prevent their spread to ourselves and others.  I mean, a hundred years ago they knew to wear masks during the deadly flu pandemic of wwi…although there were a certain amount of people who weren’t educated enough to believe in what the science of the day had to say about masks vs. viruses.  Well but anyway, to me, honest discussion, aside from insane conspiracy theories (Hillary drinks blood, etc.), is good and wholesome for an informed democracy and for the country that we all love so much.  It’s never been offensive to me, yet I feel I must walk on eggs around so many folks…that’s our age we live in…not good, so I only hope we can all learn to exchange ideas and value each other for who we all are.  The only thing I am intolerant to, not offended by, but intolerant to, is the nutty conspiracy theories that inspire folks to behave in irresponsible ways or even harmful ways, yet having absolutely no concrete evidence for the nutty theories they are acting on behalf of…that…I mean, I have to speak up and tell whatever actual facts I have on hand…i.e., whatever you think of Hillary Clinton, policies or misbehavior are one thing…selling kids or drinking blood is way out there. When I grew up, we were taught to not dislike anyone…to possibly dislike their policy, their behavior, etc., but still to respect and like the person…that there is some common good we all share.

    #87601
    Gunnar SalyerGunnar Salyer
    Participant

    For me, the policies that matter most are whether you kill babies, and whether you’re pro Israel. Those are the important things, and if you answer those correctly much else can be forgiven.

    But, as I’m entering the workforce, I need a good economy, and socialism doesn’t provide a good economy. Socialism means I’m working hard so someone else can live easy. Free market economy means I’m working hard so I can live easy.

    I also have a legal right to work in this country, but jobs are scarce because numerous people who do not have the legal right to work here are working anyway. People who are not allowed to be here are taking jobs, making it harder for me to make a living.

    Wars create hardship for families and for countries, damage the economy, and cause much death. When war is unavoidable we should fight for our liberty, but needless, undefined war should not be perpetuated. War should be be a last resort.

    Abortion has killed more people this year than the entire covid death count. In less than a month, more innocent people have been murdered than over a year of a supposedly deadly disease. The difference is people have the choice to stay home, wear masks, sanitize, and make their voice heard. They can plead, receive medical care, and protest. Unborn babies have none of these avenues available. Their only hope is that we will speak for them.

    Over 2,000,000 babies have been killed this year. 2 million. That is the real pandemic.

    One of the reasons that our forefathers came and founded this nation was to be able to worship how they saw fit, without the government interfering. Men fought and died, some of them your fathers, brothers, and sons, to give us the right to worship when, where, and how we wanted. And now the government has said that you can only worship at home or via technology.

    Men gave their lives to secure that right, and we gave it away to secure safety from an illness that kills one person out of one thousand that contract it.

    The same men died to secure our right to bear arms. That clause was added to the constitution to ensure that we could protect our rights from potential future government tyranny. And now the government would tell us that we can’t buy some types of guns or ammunition, and that we have to pay ridiculous taxes on guns THAT WE ALREADY HAVE. Retroactive taxation is a ridiculous concept. It is the same as if they lowered the speed limit from 40 to 35 in an area, and then gave everyone a ticket that had gone 40 before they changed the limit.

    The same men died to ensure that the people could select their leader. To make certain that the government served the will of the citizens, not the other way round. And for the past year, the citizens have served the will of the government, and then the government selected the leader, contrary to the will of the people.

    As a nation, we have forfeited every right that the founding fathers fought and died for, because the government promised safety if we did. We have made their deaths to be vain for the sake of a false security, and no one has said anything for fear of offending people.

    From a foreign perspective, America is a joke right now. Everyone is just laughing at them, for so many reasons.

    The phrase United we stand divided we fall was truer than anyone realized. United we stood, and divided we are falling, unless justice is served. I believe it will be, but I will not share that because y’all would see it as a conspiracy theory, and probably not evaluate its merits.

    And to those that have been calling for “peace and reconciliation” but were previously calling us hateful bigots, why do you want peace with hateful bigots? They seemed to think that the only cure was to wipe us from the face of the earth and now they want friendship? I trust enmity from my enemies, and I am suspicious of their “friendship”. Nobody suddenly befriends someone they hate except for the purpose of betraying them.

     

    Happy fiddling! I’m going to go play Liberty now, to honor what I’m not giving up without a fight!

    #87602
    cricketcricket
    Participant

    I hope nobody is asking you to give anything up.

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