May 5, 2018 at 12:38 PM #60838
Here’s what bugs me. I try to say things right, correctly and even use adverbs as required, etc., but there are three words I will never say. I will never say Opossum…no, I just can’t say that with a straight face, and one must always have a straight face while discussing possums. I will never say “oraangaTAN…” because that just ain’t right…I gotta call those critters oranga-TANG…like every oranga has the same ending that took orange juice to the moon, etc. Why ignore that? Then, I will never say HollOW…come on, it’s really a holler…don’t holler at me for it…ain’t my rules, just the way it’s gotta be. The possums and organatangs run through the hollers…that’s just the way it is.May 5, 2018 at 5:55 PM #60841
Sweet Cricket this computer program always wonts to correct My words like the ones your using and good ole Cajun words and Hillbilly words and home grown Folk words , we need to educate these dumb computers !May 5, 2018 at 6:04 PM #60844
Yeah, that’s awful, ain’t it? We need to re-write the dictionary…get it right this time…lol!May 5, 2018 at 7:06 PM #60848
Yes and I elect Great Scott to lead the charge !May 5, 2018 at 9:06 PM #60850
Oh gosh!May 5, 2018 at 10:59 PM #60855
Haha Great Scott would definitely be at the front of that charge. He is unfortunately away from technology for an extended time right now but does check in with me. I hope he is able to contribute again soon!
Cricket, I have some words I can’t seem to correct. Like when I say mis-CHEE-vee-us instead of MIS-chuh-vus.May 5, 2018 at 11:09 PM #60857
Cricket, when I was in grade school, it was so annoying having a teacher always trying to change our language. It just made no sense…why would a teacher do that…want to change the way we spoke in our homes, up on the mountain, and talking to our dogs? Why did they think we were wrong and she was right? They never explained why they wanted to change us, and I never bought into it. When I grew up, I changed some things I’m sure, to conform and not draw too much attention to myself. But it never ended…someone was always correcting me, with that superiority attitude, or asking me where I was from…like it was a liability to be from there wherever it was. My brother changed his talk to sound like he came from somewhere else, and that really made me mad. I think the teacher could have said something like, some people from outside talk different and they write the books on how it should be done, and present the other side, then kind of let it go with that. But some of these teachers came across like Stalin holding a gun to our heads, and of course we lost our respect for them and organized our private club, we called the ‘mountain lingo’ club, to express our rebellion. Of course they never found out or I’d been put back in the first grade. Didn’t these teachers ever hear of the war of Independence in 1776? How did they want to do what the British failed back then?
I’ll never make it to the 50th state of the union, because the ticket agent never heard of “Hawhy-ya” But I don’t care..May 6, 2018 at 12:57 AM #60861
Mountain power! Preach it, Rodger! This post is encouraging to me. When I took a seminar course in college, my professor explained to me that if I gave a talk in my natural accent, people would stereotype me and assume I was ignorant. Because of that I became self-conscious of my accent and worked very hard to change it. Now I know better, but at this point I’m not sure I could go back to my original dialect. Whenever I try reverting back, people think it is funny and it feels like I am mocking the speech of mountain people, and I get self conscious again.May 6, 2018 at 2:40 AM #60863
…organatangs run through the hollers…
Cricket, if you’re seeing orangatangs running through your hollers back there, you better watch what you’re putting in your coffee…May 6, 2018 at 6:34 AM #60866
Its sad but people really do judge you by your language , the clothes you wear , the vehicle you drive , the way you walk and so on , I have always worn my own hat so to speak and I know it’s held me back in some endeavors but now at 68 and I just don’t care , Its kind of crazy but I lost a lot of construction jobs because of the clothes I wore and the truck I drove , So I learned to dress better and drive a new big truck and people will pay you more you can bid higher and still get the job ahead of a good ole boy driving a old truck and wearing a tee shirt , SadMay 6, 2018 at 7:25 AM #60869
It is very sad to be judged by stuff like that. My dad insisted everybody know perfect grammar growing up…he speaks with perfect grammar, except I’ve noticed he says, CO-in, instead of coin…lol…I’ll let it slide though…lol. Anway he even says a-GAIN, instead of AGeein, like most people. He was always correcting us and just big on grammar. Then we lived up in Ohio for a few years of my childhood, so I probably picked up a lot of , well not good grammar, not good pronunciation, but, whatever….yeah, I picked up a lot of whatever there. Anyway…I’ve never gotten any perks from good grammar, although I stay away from good grammar mostly, because it sounds snobby to me…lol. I did get a job from scoring like a PhD in English on a standardaized test…to tutor in the writing center at Cumberland…but the pay was just minimum wage for 4 hours a day, but I had to be there 8 hours a day…4 hours on the clock and another 4 volunteer…that’s the kinda jobs I got…lol. But I was happy to help people get up to where they needed to be to get in their education…although…I do think it’s ridiculous to judge people by their speech…I mean, if you say something and the other person knows what you mean…you’ve communicated, and that’s that. Rodger…I don’t know what’s in the coffee, but for some reason, the word Orangutan seems to come up in conversatiion around here a lot, and it makes me cringe to say it wrong, knowing how it’s supposed to be, yet unable to say it that way, because, it just isn’t right. Maybe something IS in that coffee afterall…lol. If I meet new people, they think I’m from California…lol. Not California KY, but the real California…I think I spent too much time working at a University and picked up California talk from all those students…”Oh Wow, man…that’s like…sooooo cool, that there’s possums and organuTANGS runnin’ through our hollers!”May 6, 2018 at 9:53 AM #60872
Well I guess really, although i’ve never flown, never been to much of anywhere, I gotta say this morning for breakfast i made an African dish called Vitumbua…while thinking about orangutans, with an added G…so…how mountain am I, then, really? lol…of course I made it sort of Kentucky-Fried by omitting the traditional African spices and adding instead our own berries, dandelion syrup, and violet blossom jelly we made this year…so…kinda weirdly a-cultural is what i seem to be. My dad got a job at Ford and so we movred up there when I was ten had everything we needed and lived up there in Ohio, etc. Although there was still the old farm at that point, and our living roots in various parts of Eastern ky, both up and down…yet I make Japanese food all the time, used to read Russian novels all the time, etc. I don’t know…I’m weirdly from all over, I guess. Of course, Jean Ritchie was similarly unusally multi-cultured, and her dad, who taught in the school house in Perry County taught them all Greek. My dad, who never finished more than 8th grade, taught himself Greek, Hebrew, proper English grammar, etc., and is still very proficient at all of those things. He’s a preacher and can out-argue anybody by reverting back to early origins of the Bible in the earlier languages…but had only the factory work as his achievement, so to speak. I was the first to go to college, and met many cultures from everywhere and learned lots of things, yet never could make any money for any of my life. I guess i”m weirdly unqualified to do any sort of meaningful or necessry work. Weirdly seem to not fit in any culture…except in Whitley County, where the culture seemed to be so individualistic it was impossible to be more weird or less fitting in than the next person. But that’s all changed down there now…everybody left and somehow rich snobby people came in. All through my life, wherever I did live, up and down the road, has all been destroyed by now…it’s amazing that I have only memories and you can’t go back. Even in Whitley Co….they blew up the ridges and mountains for both coal and just because the rich people didn’t like them or whatever. Yeah, back to words… I like that useful word, “whatever,” etc. Comes in handy. But anyway…I think inside i’m mountain, yet there’s a lot of other stuff in there too. Speaking of grammar, if we still are…lol…you know about the grammar teacher who was explaining to the class that there are double negatives…if you say I don’t have no money, you have a double negative…which actually means you do not have NO money, therefore you do have money. But then the teacher said there does not exist a double positive in English, to which one of the students replied, “yeah, right!”May 6, 2018 at 11:33 AM #60873
Of course, I do have both the language and culture of holding lengthy conversations with myself…lol…soliloquizing is what it’s called, which I guess is what I’m doing right now between walks in the woods. Such a beautiful day for walking in the woods…so many new wildflowers everyday. When we went for a walk in a different area the other day, and I snapped the shot on my cell phone of bison…put it up on youtube for my last recording…we had just come across the bison minutes after three or four, i think it was four, babies were born. We were watching them try to get with it and stand up…one even got to the point of nursing…but, takes bison a long time to come around after they are first born, it seems. With cows and goats the mom’s seem more involved…the bison just went about their business while the babies laid there across the field looking dead…once every 15 minutes or so raise a shaky head and plop it bak down, pant, then motionless again. Once they got up and fell badk down, the mothers began to start to move closer. Finally, when the one began nursing, the bison formed a barrier around that baby, while the others just laid there alone in the field, still trying to raise their heads or stand up. WE didn’ see them licking or nudging the way cows and goats do. ANyway…came in for water, and going back down in a few mintues. Neglecting all kinds of my work…but this year I’d like to get more walking in, if possible. the other day we walked 8 miles…the day I got the bison photo…but…most days there won’t be time for that. I’m not off topic, am I?May 6, 2018 at 12:36 PM #60875
I guess you never get lonesome talking to yourself ! I notice people don’t argue with themselves to much either , just a endless conversation with their best friend themselves ! Ha ! I think I might just give it a try to see if I can get along with myself ! ???May 6, 2018 at 4:21 PM #60876
I don’t argue with myself too much, but I probably eat too much…lol. fighting over the food with myself…now, that’s pretty disturbing.May 6, 2018 at 7:09 PM #60879
Well, the point at the beginning was about language development. Our brains are wired in certain ways that involve language development. A lot of study has been done concerning how babies & young children have a special brain to develop language skill and for the most part, that special gift disappears as they get older. All of the complexities that can be communicated by language is astounding, and it’s far greater than anything that can be defined by a few simple general rules of grammar. Anyone who attempts to memorize a book of grammar, then think they can communicate everything by that is crazy. Each generation uses the gift of the hard wiring in our brains to altar the cultural language they are born into and develop it to meet their peculiar needs. So in all cultures the language changes dramatically in just one generation. I could give specific examples of that which I either experienced or had explained to me, by Norwegians, Lakota, Stoney, English, etc. English hasn’t changed as much because of the unique dynamics of technology etc., but to say it hasn’t changed would mean you never saw the difference between the deep south & New England. A high profile anthropologist once told me that in 2,000 years, an unwritten language changes so completely that it’s impossible to determine it’s origins. If you really listen to yourself you’d see that you don’t really speak the way it’s written down anymore. For example, if I say,”That’s something I would like.” I’d actually pronounce that. ” At’s sumpin I’d laik.” When the Norwegians came here for six weeks, they couldn’t understand an awful lot of what we said. They learned book English and knew it better than we did, and they decided we spoke a different language. I’ve spent my adult life away from home, so in my home away from home we’ve been free to follow our hard wired brains unhampered and develop our own words, idioms, and ways of saying things, which all isolated family groups did back in the hills. To force a child to deny his hard wired instincts and limit his expressions to a historic book of grammar, is to stifle his development as an individual human person. My dog doesn’t exert any conformity on me, so most of the important words I use with her no one has ever heard before because we evolved those words into something only we understand. This has been going on for the entire history of the human race because we are wired that way.
The anti double negative rule you mentioned Cricket, goes against the way our brain is wired & attempts to oversimplify a very complex communication concept. Other languages express a negative, or possession, & such things in such a complex way that it’s impossible to totally define by a grammatical rule and it’s left to certain other nuances of the language. The double negative expressions we use follow the way our brain is wired and is perfectly understood by those of us that didn’t take the grammar lesson too seriously.May 6, 2018 at 7:45 PM #60881
eyeh ag ree wiv ev ree thin sed sew farMay 6, 2018 at 9:59 PM #60889
I agree too, Fred, but that was tough deciphering…lol. Rodger, you’re right…for whatever crazy reason, there’s a lot of pressure on how people are “permitted” to communicate. I don’t like it that way at all, but, yeah, somehow it got that way. When I took Russian just for something fun to do, free because I worked my little pion job at the university…lol…they gave me a free class if I wanted, each semester…so I took Russian, which has a history of changing with politics…I wanted to read my favorite Dostoevsky novel in Russian, but it was so different, the differences made it just not a doable thing. Communism had a real effect on the Russian language. I knew elderly people in Jellico, TN, who had migrated from Italy…they sorta still had slight Italian accents, though mixed with East TN accent somewhat, but they had all completely forgotten the Italian language.May 7, 2018 at 9:43 PM #60904
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